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Persistent standing an Eastenders view


On the first day of the season v Derby the Eastend saw a baffling amount lot of  flyers being handed out at the turnstiles from Forza Eastend and BCFC within the Eastend. The club gave out information regarding Persistent standing and what follows here has been written with the help of the Football supporters federation and may provoke some thought.

Standing at football grounds is against the law!

It isn't - the Football Licensing Authority issue ground licences and one of the terms and conditions of that licence is that all grounds that are (or have been) in the top two divisions must be all seater - that is, the rules against standing are a terms and conditions on the ticket and no more.

Even so, standing IS allowed - but only at moments of excitement - the definition of what constitutes a moment of excitement is open to interpretation and the more fan friendly clubs use that freedom to advantage.

Have a cursory browse through Bristol City's official site and you will note that BCFC constantly uses images of fans stood for promotional purposes but only at "moments of excitement"! Is this not ironic? Maybe its time for the Council to draw up some guidelines and explain in detail how fans can and cannot be excited e.g. singing. They won't because it will expose the topic for the nonsense it is.


It is less dangerous to sit at football than stand!

Not true - a report was commissioned by Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council who control Old Trafford to examine this - it showed both sitting the whole time or standing the whole time to be low risk and "sitting and standing in moments of excitement" (as we have now) to be medium risk. I.e. allowing standing the whole time is safer than current practices.

The pro standing organistion Stand up Sit down propose a common sense approach now where fans are allowed to stand in front of their seats in certain areas. This is eminently sensible when it has been "proven" to be safer to stand passively in front of a seat rather than constantly sit and rise which IS hazardous.
The Football Supporters Federation is not advocating a return to terraces or even for standing in seated areas and is campaigning for the introduction of specific safe standing areas for 2-3000 people in a block - where there are barriers every row along the whole length of the row - as they have in Germany - these are so safe that virtually no injuries caused by standing in these areas have ever been recorded.
There are variations of these barriers that have seats included for use in UEFA competitions where only sitting is allowed.

Crowds that are sat are easier to control and trouble is less likely!

Not so. Firstly, the all seater requirement was introduced for reasons of crowd safety, NOT crowd control and this is only being introduced now because the authorities have lost every argument about standing.
Secondly, there is no evidence at all that seated crowds are easier to control - there aren't riots at rugby matches or concerts held in football grounds when standing is allowed - and the controls over ticket transferability and who sits where (particularly in away sections) are so lax that any impression of crowd control is illusory.
There is also the counter view that says that if a fight did break out then seats make it harder for the stewards to get there to control it.

Eastenders who stand are just selfish!

Surely the issue here is catering for everyone's needs and making sure that sitting and standing areas are separate.

The problem at the moment is that people many fans who want to sit and those that want to stand are forced into the same areas - safe standing ensures that there is complete segregation between those who want to sit and those who want to stand - as an interim measure, some clubs have tried to introduce 'singing areas' which are really areas where standing in front of seats is tolerated.

In effect Bristol City's Eastend is a singing area where fans opt to stand and it appears that there have been no complaints regarding standing from fellow Eastenders concerning fans "selfishly" standing in this area.

If  Bristol City fans do not sit at Ashton Gate the capacity will be cut and parts of the ground will be shut!

The reason why Trafford Council commissioned their report was because they threatened the same thing at Old Trafford - it never happened and is not now ever mentioned. If local councils are going to close down sections of any football ground on safety grounds they need a good reason to do this. Thanks to the Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council, fans standing in seated areas can no longer be considered such a reason.
There is no evidence to back up the assertion that this is unsafe, especially so since the Football Licensing Authority has recently had to retract most of its figures in this context because, again thanks to the freedom of information act the figures they were using have been shown to be false.
Any council attempting to do this will almost certainly be forced to retract such an order at the first challenge to it.

All seater stadiums have attracted more families to football!

There is no evidence to support this! Richard Caborn [Former Sports minister] used to spout similar nonsense about there being more women in all seater stadia - but when he was challenged to show the data he based those comments on by supporters organisations - under the freedom of information act  - he couldn't and was forced to withdraw them.
What we do know is that the age profile of the fans of most clubs is increasing - at Manchester United, the average age of fans in the Stretford End in the 70's was 18-19 - these days it is 42-43. The average age of a season ticket holding fan in the  premier ship is increasing  and now stands at 43!! According to the Premier League's most recent supporters' survey, last season just 9%, less than one in 10 supporters, was under 24.

At Cardiff City 35% of season ticket holders on the Grange Road terrace are under sixteen's! Using Germanys model of safe standing this clearly shows that the more options are available the more inclusive football becomes.

Conclusion

It is clear from reading various fans websites that there area lot of misconceptions regarding standing at Bristol City matches at Ashton Gate. Standing is not illegal and is allowed so clear and concise information regarding the matter should be provided for supporters. As already alluded to the council should provide specific guidelines for Bristol City fc to follow explaining if standing at moments of excitement include bookings, corner kicks, fouls, goals, Lee Trundle catching Soccer AM's eye, Jamie McCombe striding forth, Ivan Sproule galloping down the wing with or without the ball, sendings off, shots on goal, singing ……. Does GJ send the team out with the intention of NOT exciting the crowd?  Surely, for many fans, the entire game is exciting ... if not, what's the point of going?  Recently a representative of BCFC had this to say about the Eastend :-

"Well done to our supporters in the East End who are making lots of noise and coming up with a whole string of ideas to make that part of the ground a vibrant and exciting place.

But as I mentioned in a blog a couple of weeks ago, persistent standing in that area is still a massive problem. There is a real possibility that the safety authorities will ask for a reduction in the capacity of the Wedlock Stand if this persists."

The Eastend is becoming an example of what can be achieved when fans and club work together. Our traditional home end is really starting to stick out in the Championship for the passion of its support. Is the high degree of standing fans in this area of the ground NOT in part responsible for this? Bristol City Council is placing our club in a no win position which could cause a lot of bad feeling between fans and club. So it can't be asked too many times why are the Council not providing BCFC with guidelines to explain to fans when they can stand?

It is clear any case against standing has effectively collapsed, standing appears on the increase at stadiums, the Football Supporters Federation have identified 92 percent of match going supporters supporting some form of terracing at stadiums in their yearly survey, up to 150 MP's are supportive of a return to standing and one thing MP's really love is a good bandwagon to dive on.

There is going to be a change in the manner football stadia are managed and Bristol City should be looking to pre- empt this shift now. Our club can work in unison with all the supporters bodies and be right at the fore front of  something that will reinvigorate stadiums and help attract back  what is fast becoming a missing generation of fans.

Have a read of this statement from Bradford City and decide if this really is not the road Bristol City should not be pursuing?

Safe Standing Initiative: Statement from Bradford City FC

BCFC has issued the following statement from Director of Operations, David Baldwin.

'BCFC recognises that a number of City supporters wish the club to provide a dedicated 'Safe Standing' area in one part of the stadium at Valley Parade. This would provide an option for those supporters who prefer to watch games whilst standing up. The major part of the stadium would retain the existing 'all-seater' arrangements.

'Bradford City is always working to improve the match-day experience, and to extend the choices available to fans, as it has done this season by opening the Bradford End to home supporters. At the same time, there are well-known issues regarding Football League Regulations which make it difficult to create a Safe Standing area in the short term, and there are resource implications as well.

'Whilst it is not an immediate priority for BCFC to explore the Safe Standing option, the club will look sympathetically on any practical proposals that are put forward by supporters, which address adequately all the regulatory and resource issues involved. The club co-chairmen have asked meanwhile if supporters can refrain from campaigning on the issue with banners etc. within the Coral Windows Stadium itself.'

The Trust welcomes this statement, which responds to the petition organised by City fan Manny Dominguez, and fully understands the position taken by the club. BCFC has put the ball at the supporters' end of the pitch. It is now up to the supporters to persuade the authorities that the time is right for a trial run of Safe Standing at an all-seater League ground, to find the funding, and then to persuade the club to go ahead with the renovations. One idea would be to turn either the Lower or the Upper Tier of the T.L.Dallas Stand (The 'Bradford End') into a Safe Standing area. BCST looks forward to working with Manny and with the national supporters' organisations to help bring this development about. The football supporters federation (fsf) has already shown a keen interest in this issue, and Supporters Direct (SD) has also offered to assist. Bradford City is once again in a position to lead the country in widening opportunities for supporters. BCST invites comments from Trust members and all City supporters about the most practical ways to progress this issue.

Stand up sit Down - http://www.standupsitdown.co.uk/

Football Supporters Federation - http://www.fsf.org.uk/

UP THE CITY

Never mind the Warnocks
This is the EASTEND
Special Thanks to the 3 lions pub West Street for sponsoring any future fanzines.. Three Lions, 206 West Street Bedminster Bristol BS3 3NB. Tel: 0117 9020056
update 25/11/08

The club not the Council have turned down the opportunity of holding a meeting regarding standing in the Eastend proposed by the Supporters Trust stating that the rule around persistent standing is not unclear as we have explained it on many occasions. BCFC actually have not yet explained on any occasion when fans can stand as they have still not defined what moments of excitement are.

If you see any bleating about trouble in the stand you might want to point out its policed and the arrests figures are probably near to zero this season so it must be an absolute warzone.

The club claim to have addressed meetings [meeting?] regarding the standing issue?????

The club are also stating capacities have been reduced elsewhere … they have not … it has only applied to away support!

It seems the idea of signing up to a statement which says they will work with supporters groups to explore safe standing has been swerved. "IF" this is the case it has to cast serious doubt on BCFC working with fans in unison regarding the new stadium. Any information out there highlights fans are in support of safe standing by some way.

The club are talking about "the next step" .... whatever that means.

The above is coming from Doug Harman who is the Chairman of Ashton Gate ltd. He is not even a fan by the way!!.


It is  disappointing as the Councils safety officer was willing to meet fans to discuss persistent standing but the club have turned this opportunity down without talking en masse to fans within the stand. We don’t thoroughly understand the rules as it happens and  doubt if we are alone.

We were also was hoping to ask a couple of question regarding that gert St George flag if the opportunity arose.

Hopefully the club will take up the Supporters trust initiative because if they don't it's going to be very hard to believe they will take fans views seriously regarding the new stadium if it goes ahead.